Tea Time with Alexis J Hall and Friends ~ Special Guests Vanessa North & Santino Hassell

TeaTime with AJHThanks as ever to the Prism Book Alliance for hosting me (AJH), my twice-monthly column and today’s special guests, Vanessa North and Santino Hassell.

The One About Bisexuality

Hello and welcome to another Teatime!

I’m super excited to be joined today by Santino Hassell and Vanessa North. We’re going to talking about the representation and portrayal of bisexuality and other non-binary sexualities in romance.

AJH: Hello, and thank you for joining me.

VN: Hello 🙂 Thank you for inviting me to join you.

SH: Hey guys. Thanks for having me.

AJH: So, this is a pretty big and complicated topic (unlike all the other small and entirely simple things we talk about a tea-time) … I kind of feel I should be introducing everyone like this Bisexuals Anonymous or something.

VN: wellll… You could, or we could just start talking about representation and stuff

AJH: Or we could do that. But I think one of the broader problems of representing bisexuality is that it’s become this … invisible catch-all, in a way? Either the possibility of non-binary sexuality is completely erased (like in the majority of Gay For You stories) or any non-binary sexuality is automatically considered / lumped in with bisexuality.

VN: Well, even among bisexuals, we don’t necessarily agree on how our sexuality is defined.

SH: Agreed on that. One of the biggest debates I’ve gotten into was whether bisexuality should be seen as a “choice”, and whether or not “choice” is something that should even be discussed.

VN: Sexual attraction and romantic attraction are so complicated–and I do think we, on some level, may choose to date or fuck or marry an individual, but I don’t think we choose to be attracted to them.

SH: I tend to have the mindset that there are people who have always been sexually/romantically attracted to certain genders, or all genders, but that there are also people who choose to experiment, or to embrace desires that develop later on. It’s why I don’t find GFY totally offensive all the time. Just the way the narrative is sometimes presented.

VN: I don’t find GFY offensive–though sometimes, when clumsily written, it sort of sweeps aside the issue of genuine bi-erasure. “Oh he was really gay the whole time.” Well…no.

AJH: Yes. I think this taps into the root of a problem (if we feel there is a problem) in the sense that – regardless of the degree to which you feel attraction and/oor sexuality can be chosen – identity is definitely chosen. So if you sleep with 83736356272 women and 1 man, and you conclude you’re gay … then, you’re gay? And even if you sleep with people across the gender spectrum but don’t define as bisexual, then that’s entirely legitimate too, and not inherently bi-erasing. So essentially I think a lot of the limitations in representing non binary sexualities in fiction is the fact that you’re essentially dealing with the necessarily simplified identity of imaginary people.

VN: well, sure, and i support anyone’s right to self-identify however they like. I am writing a story NOW about a gay man who sleeps with women and doesn’t identify as bi–just lonely sometimes.

AJH: But given what a lot of people perceive to be (and I would agree) a lack of representation in fiction … I suppose there are some readers (I wouldn’t be one of them, I hasten to add) who might find that bi-erasing in a way? As in here is a character partaking of explicitly bisexual behaviour who is refusing to define as bisexual.

VN: And it may be. But it’s true to the character and true to the type of coming-out sometimes seen in men in their thirties from small rural areas–they are pressured into keeping their sexuality hidden for social–often religious–reasons, and don’t truly begin to identify as gay until they feel they have to. It’s not so much about the sexual behavior as the social behavior and doing what’s expected for the society they live in.

SH: I think there is a difference between bi-erasure and the type of narrative that Vanessa is discussing. There are plenty of men, even now and even in larger cities, that go through life living “discreetly”. Sleeping with women or getting married to women to keep up appearances, or because they feel it’s not safe to be gay, and I think that is a story that needs to be told in M/M. It just so happens that there are more stories told about men who have enjoyed sleeping with women all their lives, meet a specific guy, and then decide all of those other experiences were a mistake. That is what I consider to be bi-erasure.

AJH: Gosh, yes, of course there’s a different, and I don’t mean it sound like I’m picking on Vanessa’s story at all.

VN: Whatev, you’re totally picking on me. 😛

AJH: Noooo, it sounds great and I’ll totally read it. What I mean is, in fiction and in romance fiction especially you don’t really have the broader social context so there’s an extent to which you only really have behaviour. Sexuality is essentially reduced to what you do with your genitalia on page. So in order to depict bisexuality explicitly enough to be recognised as bisexuality you kind of have to have a character acting a certain way. And consequently stories in which characters “act bisexual” (whatever this means) and then identity a different way can feel erasing. When they’re could be a telling a perfectly legitimate other story (like the one Vanessa mentions) or just being a … crass GFY.

SH: I get what you’re saying, I think. When I come out as bisexual to people, I get a lot of these beady-eyed looks and questions as if I am “allegedly” bisexual. Like, can I back it up with any actual experience? As if the number of dicks I’ve sucked will validate my bisexuality more.

AJH: I’m kind of imagining this Wanted poster now: Santino Hassell – Alleged Bisexual.

SH: In books, it seems like there are certain requirements for a character to seem REALLY bisexual instead of just… allegedly bisexual. I had that issue recently when writing about a bicurious guy. I didn’t want to discount his experiences with women, or only talk about him being attracted to women in past tense, so I added a short M/F scene, but then realized few people will want to read it.

VN: I think maybe you’ve hit on something that strikes me as difficult in M/M and in poly stories… often, to prove bisexuality, we’re expected to show the sex on page, but M/M readers don’t often want to read “girl parts.” So, i actually see more representation in M/F menage stories–where bisexuality is basically treated as synonymous with polyamory–which as a monogamous bisexual, I find problematic.

AJH: I agree. I’m broadly monogamous too but they didn’t amputate my tastes and preferences when I signed the relationship paperwork. And this brings us back to the issue of our understanding of bisexuality in life and fiction being centred on acts, or considered “alleged” only. You kind of have this weird situation where someone else’s sexual-identity is derived in the moment from the person they’re with (sexually or romantically).

VN: The first woman I was ever attracted to, or consciously attracted to, was not someone I ever had a romantic or sexual relationship with–but obviously as a young woman discovering I TOTALLY had the hots for this other woman, it was a huge moment in my life, and she’s kind of a special person to me in my mind because of that.

SH: It seems like for some people, and this goes for both heterosexual and queer people, your sexual identity is only validated with sexual experience.

AJH: By which logic, biromantic asexuals do not exist. Obviously I’m being slightly silly here but…

SH: Maybe, but it’s entirely possible that some readers and authors both feel that way–it’s not a romance without sex, so romantic asexuals would get left out of the equation.

AJH: Or Christians who don’t believe in sex before marriage. Which is even more exciting.

SH: That kind of makes me want to write a historical about Puritans having sly sex.

AJH: Pretty sure I’ve read something like that.

VN: I think that’s true–people tend to expect sex in romance. However, those types of stories may be wildly popular among people who prefer not to read sex in their books.

AJH: Although actually – my semi-serious point is that obviously readers have expectations (and that’s fine!) and the genre itself comes with expectations (and that’s also fine!) but the way these intersect with sexualities that express themselves in less traditional ways (bisexuality, asexuality) makes writing romances that are recognisable and satisfying as romances about these characters … well … kinda complicated within those expectations.

SH: It definitely makes it complicated if you’re trying to represent the characters in a way that you feel is genuine. Part of the problem might be that in some romances, the main character’s love interest is portrayed as this one true love/best sex of my life type person, and past experiences are kind of… done away with. But avoiding giving that impression and falling into the “one true love/real love” trope gets tricky if you want to acknowledge those past experiences without taking the focus away from the current plot or love interest or whatever. Sometimes I wonder if that’s why it’s not always done very effectively or at all.

VN: I think it can definitely be traced back to the “one true love” trope–which often represents in virginity narratives or in narratives where the hero or heroine only has had limited, unfulfilling sexual experiences. It’s definitely not art imitating life, but art imitating a sort of social model that I would hope is becoming outdated.

AJH: Or it’s just the nature of our expectations about romance which may not, in themselves, be particularly problematic. I mean, a good romance (for me) presents essentially a convincing argument (argument in the broad sense) for two people being better off together than they might be alone, or with somebody else. So I can see why, under those narrative circumstances, diminishing the importance/value of previous lovers or alternative lovers serves a purpose. Even if it doesn’t necessarily represent life.

SH: That’s true. In the novel I’m working on now, there is a question of “why are you choosing to have a relationship with me and not any of the girls you have been with in the past?”, and it was… interesting having the bicurious guy respond to that question in a way that didn’t devalue his past experiences while trying to explain why he feels this guy is the right one for him. It boils down to he and his love interest bringing out the best in each other, and the strength of their connection, but I’m pretty sure someone somewhere will still think I was erasing his prior experiences.

VN: I hate to see past relationships vilified or discredited–in real life and in fiction. A lot of times, people think it’s healing to trash the ex–and for some individuals, it may be–but in most cases, two good people can have a bad relationship–or a good relationship that ends–and it’s just part of life. I think those relationships teach us a lot, and prepare us for better, more fulfulling relationships down the road. I love to see characters say “yeah, I liked this person, but it didn’t work out.” and let that be that.

AJH: Sometimes, though, there isn’t anything good to say. I have at least one relationship in my past – not abusive or anything, just not very good – where people would afterwards ask me “why were you dating that guy” and, not wanting to diminish the value of who he was and what we had together, I’d end up answering “well, he had a car.”

SH: I don’t have a car. Guess it will never work out between us.

AJH: Sorry, no. I’m a classy gent. You need your own transport in order to take me to fancy restaurants.

SH: :/ Whatevs. I still have Grindr.

VN: I always sort of feel that there’s nothing wrong with being in love, or like, or lust–even if it ends.

AJH: I agree (except in extreme cases), especially if there’s vehicles involved. I’m less troubled by it in romance only because I see it as sort of the equivalent of the virgin spinster with the Best Vagina Ever.

VN: Spoiler: She also has red hair and green eyes.

AJH: Aaaanyway, we should probably look at wrapping this up. Do we have any recs for books with bisexual protagonists?

VN: I’m a huge fan of Kit Rocha’s Beyond series, in which pretty much everyone has sex with everyone–F/F, M/F, M/M and just about every menage situation you can imagine. The characters treat their sexuality as something rewarding and fun–and it’s sexy as hell.

AJH: Oh, that reminds me of Megan Mulry. There’s lots of really cheerful everybody with everybody stuff in Bound To Be a Groom. Which is fun. And I like Cecilia Tan just all in the time in general. Basically everyone she writes is bisexual until proven otherwise, which I like. The hero of her billionaire dom series (the first one being Slow Surrender) is obviously with the heroine, as its hetrom, but he read as queer as hell to me.

SH: I would recommend Off Campus by Amy Jo Cousins. The main character is bisexual, but what I really liked about his narrative was his fear of calling himself bisexual to his love interest. I found it really honest, because oftentimes, it’s other queer men who are leery of dating bisexuals or who don’t “believe in bisexuality”/consider it a phase. It wasn’t as much of an issue in Off Campus, but I liked that Cousins acknowledged the existence of that type of mindset.

AJH: Thank you for joining me folks!

We do hope you’ll join us for more discussion in the comments. How do you find the portrayal and representation of non-binary sexualities in romance? Any peeves or concerns? Any tropes you love or hate. Do you have recs for us?


About Alexis J Hall

Alexis Hall was born in the early 1980s and still thinks the 21st century is the future. To this day, he feels cheated that he lived through a fin de siècle but inexplicably failed to drink a single glass of absinthe, dance with a single courtesan, or stay in a single garret.

He did the Oxbridge thing sometime in the 2000s and failed to learn anything of substance. He has had many jobs, including ice cream maker, fortune teller, lab technician, and professional gambler. He was fired from most of them.

He can neither cook nor sing, but he can handle a 17th century smallsword, punts from the proper end, and knows how to hotwire a car.

He lives in southeast England, with no cats and no children, and fully intends to keep it that way.

Website: quicunquevult.com
Twitter: @quicunquevult

About Vanessa North

vANESS-nORTH Author of over a dozen novels, novellas, and short stories, Vanessa North delights in giving happy-ever-afters to characters who don’t think they deserve them. Relentless curiosity led her to take up knitting and run a few marathons “just to see if she could.” She started writing for the same reason. Her very patient husband pretends not to notice when her hobbies take over the house. Living and writing in Northwest Georgia, she finds her attempts to keep a quiet home are frequently thwarted by twin boy-children and a very, very large dog.

Website: vanessanorth.com
Twitter: @vanessanwrites

About Santino Hassell

santino Santino Hassell was raised by a conservative family, but he was anything but traditional. He grew up to be a smart-mouthed, school cutting grunge kid, then a transient twenty-something, and eventually transformed into a romance writing and sarcasm loving guy that is most well known for co-writing a free, dystopian series that has spawned an online cult following.

Santino is a dedicated gamer, a former anime-watcher and fanfic writer, an ASoIaF mega nerd, a Grindr enthusiast, but most of all he is a writer of LGBT fiction that is heavily influenced by the gritty, urban landscape of New York City, his belief that human relationships are complex and flawed, and his own life experiences.

Twitter: @santinohassell
Website: santinohassell.com

Farewell Giveaway
I have a number of paperbacks, most of which are signed, to giveaway. Over the between now (11 Mar 2017) and 31 Mar 2017, every comment on the blog (this post and all other new posts), will be entered to win 1 of these paperbacks. There are also some misc swag items, so there will be a few packs of these to give away as well.

Thank you so much for your support over the last 4 years. Prism will be closing its doors on 1 April 2017. All content will remain available, but no new content will appear after 31 Mar 2017. As such all request forms have been turned off. Again Thank you,

Brandilyn
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Prism Book Alliance® assumes no liability for the ownership of photos or content used in guest posts and interviews.  The post author assumes all responsibility and liability for this content.

30 thoughts on “Tea Time with Alexis J Hall and Friends ~ Special Guests Vanessa North & Santino Hassell

  1. Great teatime chat! I was very interested in all your thinky thoughts being a bisexual woman. I have nothing great to add to what you all said, just that I enjoyed reading your discussion on it.

    BTW, I started ICoS last night (weirdly coincidental with the timing of this chat) and I read until 2 am, got up at 8 am and then promptly dived in again with coffee. My extra coffee consumption is firmly blamed on Santino. I have no regrets and will probably do a repeat tonight. And tomorrow, and…

  2. Good discussion as always. I loved Vanessa’s comment…’I do think we, on some level, may choose to date or fuck or marry an individual, but I don’t think we choose to be attracted to them.’ I think the word ‘attracted’ is a much more inclusive term.

    I, too, have no liking for stories where past relationships are vilified…even relationships that end painfully, or were never really good had something about them or they would never have existed, and as we change and learn from our relationships, it could be said we might never had met that ‘one true love’ had it not been for our pasts. Surely for that reason alone they should be recognised and valued.

    • Totally agree with that point, too. Even the sucky relationships teach us something. At least they did me, which makes them valuable.

      • I think there are obviously some relationships that, uh, cross lines.

        But, in general, yes, I agree that one can usually derive some thing valuable from most human connections. I think love is a very immediate thing so the feelings you’re, um, feeling *right now* seem infinitely realer than anything you may have experienced in the past, even if it’s nominally the same emotion.

        And, hey, sometimes people have cars so what’s a boy to do?

  3. VN: Spoiler: She also has red hair and green eyes. <<< snort, you're fawesome.

    Another fantab discussion.

    It feels like sexuality has become and still is a "victim" of social expectation, as in M/F is ok because = babies, and M/M or F/F is ok because = no babies, but anything beyond that 1) requires people to think beyond what may be their normal mental boundaries and 2) examine their own possible fluidity on the sexuality scale.

    Behaviorally, I think a lot of people naturally feel their sexuality isn't such a rigid definition, but until the expectations or definitions themselves of sexuality become more fluid, the freedom to both express and accept the wide spectrum of sexuality won't happen.

    I might be stating the obvious here, but I think this might be one of the reasons some people are rather explicit about not wanting to see the lady bits, or doubt someone is bisexual because they must be gay after having one gay experience, etc etc etc.

    This is my opinion only, but I think a lost of us, maybe even the majority, have very fluid and natural curiosity to want to have different experiences sexually, do experience falling in love in varying degrees with both genders, are smacked upside the head with attractions that fall on different places along that spectrum… but as humans, we have that tendency to want to label and put in a particular box because our brains tell us that makes things easier, so society is built upon that same principle. However, I think this is also why it's such a wonderful, intriguing, interesting human thing to discuss and explore, both in real life and in fiction.

    • “This is my opinion only, but I think a lost of us, maybe even the majority, have very fluid and natural curiosity to want to have different experiences sexually”

      I also feel this way! I don’t think it is the case for all people, but I do think sexuality can be more fluid and shifting than a lot of people may believe. I know many queer people who are all over the spectrum in this regard. I know men who have always known they were gay, but I also have met a lot of men who have become curious over time even if though they are 25, 35, or 50+ and have always been with women.

      It’s hard for me to believe that sexuality is static for everyone when I have met so many people who have had other experiences.

      • Right?! Exactly! I mean, so many things about us human types are not at all static, so why not sexuality? It’s so much a part of who we all are, no matter where on the proverbial scale we fall, it seems *gasp* only logical that this too would be something that goes through changes over our lifetimes.

        • I think … it’s very difficult to understand sexuality on anything other than a personal level. It’s almost incomprehensible to me that – for some people – sexuality *isn’t fluid* (in any direction) … like my brain actually stutters and I’m like sitting here thinking “but … but … how does that even work?!” (with the mental interrobang and everything). But equally I think it’s problematic to ascribe too much to social/cultural rigidity. Ideas about ‘natural’ sexuality are really troubling, even when it seems to be in your favour i.e. that humans are ‘meant to be’ fluid, rather than ‘meant to be’ straight. I do some people who are just straight and some people who are just gay and that’s … y’know … the way they are and it’s okay. Not wrong, not lesser, & etc. Because sexual fluidity is de-valued and erased a lot of the time, I think it’s very easy for the backlash against that to hit the non-fluid.

          And this whole debate kind of loops into a lot of the ways queerness is discussed in general, especially the choice/inherent/should it be cured debate. I won’t touch on that again because … well … everybody’s heard it before but yeah. *nods sagely*

  4. A very interesting discussion. I’ve begun to hate GFY stories where someone who’s never been attracted to men before is suddenly deemed gay because he fell for one specific man (lately, most of the stories at least hint to the person actually having been attracted to men before, but not acknowledging it).

    I also have a recommendation – Lynn Flewelling’s “Nightrunner” series. It’s mainly a classic fantasy adventure series, but the MC’s (and some other characters) just happen to be bisexual (one of the MC’s struggles with this realization a bit, because of his background, but not very hard – just kind of hasn’t thought of it before). There’s no explicit sex in the books (although M/M, M/F and F/F are all hinted at), but there is some romance, and I find it really nice and natural – the characters become good friends before their feelings slowly developing into a romantic relationship.

    • I don’t have a problem with GFY insofar as how it is sometimes portrayed in books. I DO believe that a person can develop attraction or desires over time, and that it’s perfectly valid for someone to decide to explore their sexuality later on in life. I tend to be in the minority about this though. :p

      What does bother me about some GFY, is when a character who has always had sex with women and had relationships with women (not a repressed character) suddenly becomes… dismissive/belittling of those past experiences since he is now with a man. That’s when it feels like it has to be one or the other, as if someone can’t possibly be attracted to all genders.

      • This.

        Basically I agree with this.

        I think GFY *can* be problematic for a lot of reasons: it can erase non-binary sexualities and it can also be weirdly homophobic (the idea that is somehow more romantic, or acceptable, to be attracted to one particular dude, rather than dudes in general) but I don’t think stories in which a character discovers and/or develops different sexual and romantic attractions that he previously experienced are inherently problematic by themselves.

  5. Just when I was feeling a Sahara-like dearth of all things Alexis on the interwebs you gift me this wonderful post on one of my favorite topics, bisexuality, or as I like to call it in romance: the great unknown. Loved your guests and loved the post. Thank you! Runs off to investigate the titles rec’d that I’ve not read yet.

  6. I’m just here for the gift certificate.

    But no, seriously, as a bisexual woman, I found the discussion interesting. While there are always exceptions in life, I think most people demonstrate non-binary sexual desires at some point in their lives. Even calling sexuality “non-binary” is misleading because it indicates that there opposing, static values of sexual behaviors. Better yet, sexuality is situationally-oriented. Because we can find ourselves sexually attracted to all types of people in the “right” circumstances.

    That’s my $25 worth, anyway.

    • Come for the gift certification, stay for the discussion 🙂

      I think it’s … impossible to track. I do know some people who are pretty damn staunch. And if they have experimented it’s always resulted in a “nope, definitely gay/straight” response. So while I don’t think sexual *behaviour* is unchangeable (lots of thing influence sexual behaviour – chemical castration, aversion therapy, abuse) I think, for some people, sexuality (and sexual identity) is set. Static if you will.

      Just something I’m very aware of in these sort of discussions is that it’s hilariously easy to erase/reject/invalidate people who do feel their sexuality is not fluid.

  7. I love reading these discussions. I love that they are so honest and give great food for thought to folks who may not have ever considered the issues or may not have ever thought others had the same ideas as them.

    I love hearing what other people think about some of the topics running through my mind that can’t really get out because I live in the middle of backwards, old-school, behind the times Mississippi. Thank you.

  8. Really good discussion here. I think this issue is just one more example of how prone we all are to want to neatly box up & label everything about human behavior. *She says, stating the obvious* But really, it’s like we want everything two-dimensional – heh, well, sometimes it seems as if we really to want things ONE dimensional, if we could get away with it – to make life feel simpler, easier to understand, & give ourselves the comforting illusion that we actually know what the heck is going on or have the slightest degree of control over it. When in reality everything – not just sexuality but EVERYTHING – is probably like, at least SIX dimensional and just mind-bogglingly ambiguous and complex and nuanced and multichotomous and . . . all that jazz. And we have few clues & even less control, so we kind of need to accept that & just get over it 🙂

    I mean, just to use the example of Vanessa’s story, about “a gay man who sleeps with women and doesn’t identify as bi – just lonely sometimes.” And as Alexis said, I can absolutely see some readers looking at that as bi-erasing, when it’s really not, it’s just a different & equally legitimate story. To me, that attitude sort of says that, because bi-erasure is a problem, every time a literary character exhibits behavior that could conceivably be interpreted as bisexual it is the writer’s duty to portray that character as such. And of course bi-erasure IS a big problem. But to look at things that way is, I think, very rigid, and ignores the fact that by trying to force this character into the “bisexual” box, you could be erasing of some OTHER identity. Like, gay men who sometimes sleep with women if they are lonely, for example. Or “living discreetly” as Santino said.

    Or, y’know, maybe the women just had cars 😉

    But seriously, it seems like we’re forever congratulating ourselves for having jumped out of one box, while failing to notice we’ve jumped into the one right next to it 😛

  9. Great conversation! And thank you for the OFF CAMPUS shout out. 🙂

    I realized recently that I might have written a different book if I’d tried to write OC a decade or more ago. I went to a women’s college in the early nineties, and almost every woman I knew, self included, experimented with a fluid concept of sexual & romantic attraction. But all the men I knew were either straight or gay. Even at liberal east coast colleges, bisexuality as an option for men wasn’t discussed. It’s only in the past decade that some of my male friends have begun talking to me about their experiences with men, all of which happened when they were older (in their 30s or 40s). It’s still something they keep pretty private still, but those few men have helped me push back mentally against the “all men are gay, straight, or fooling themselves” narrative. (I think younger guys are more open about it, which is great, but I think it’s still harder for men than it is for women to discuss publicly.) If I’d written OC a decade ago, I’d have felt obligated to write Tom as having faked his previous attraction to women, because I didn’t have a model of male bisexuality.

    So, as much as people tease or groan about sapiosexual orientations and such, I’m highly in favor of anything that allows folks to define themselves in a way that feels accurate. I have a book coming up with a heroine who’s bisexual and a hero who sees himself as straight, but open to an experience with a man when he and his girlfriend decide together that it would be hot. So bring on the flexible concepts of sexuality!

    • +1 to your comment.

      When I was younger, I got CONSTANT pushback in the LGBT community when I said I was bisexual. It just…wasn’t something that people really accepted from a man. Very few people seemed to believe in it. It actually made me feel alienated from the community for a long time, and I became really bitter. It’s only been in the last few years that I have seen bisexuality being embraced more in society.

      And…

      ” I have a book coming up with a heroine who’s bisexual and a hero who sees himself as straight, but open to an experience with a man when he and his girlfriend decide together that it would be hot.”

      I would very much like to read this book. Like yesterday.

  10. My mind’s queer, my body straight. So far. I live a sheltered, married life now but who knows what happens when the kids grown up. My spouse is/has been very bicourious so the future is tabula rasa. 😉

  11. Thank you for another thoughtful conversation!

    Made me think further about myself… It’s kinda hard for me, because all I can—and want to do—is ‘think’ about it, since I found my hubby when I was 17 and still am happily married now. So everything seems to be just in my head and not ‘proven’, and that makes is rather invalid somehow?
    I’m getting somewhere, though. Eventually. Reading your post helped. A bit.Thanks again 🙂

    Santino, you wrote:
    I didn’t want to discount his experiences with women, or only talk about him being attracted to women in past tense, so I added a short M/F scene, but then realized few people will want to read it.

    I know this is slightly off topic… But that just pisses me off. So much.
    I mean… People… Woman!!! How can they be so F-phobic???
    🙂 Okay, sorry… I got carried away there shortly, and I really need to stop here, otherwise I’ll rant for a long while ;-P
    I want to read it, okay? Write it for me, please?

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